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| © AFP Lawyer Rudy Giuliani was widely ridiculed for suggesting "truth isn't truth" |
By Caleb Howe, Mediaite
In Rudy Giuliani‘s interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo on Wednesday night, two big topics were of course the allegations in Bob Woodward‘s new book, and the anonymous op-ed published at the New York Times earlier in the day. Giuliani wonders if maybe the two events were coordinated, and whether the Times might have been “complicit” in that “orchestrated” attack.
Cuomo brought up to Giuliani the similarities between the incidents alleged and quotes attributed in Woodward’s book and the “tone” of the op-ed at the Times.
“And then that op-ed comes out today that is an echo of exactly the tone, the tenor, and the concerns that are listed in that book,” said Cuomo, implying the reinforcement may suggest truth. “Coincidence?” he asked.
Giuliani responded taking the similarities as potentially indicative of collusion.
“Maybe yes. Maybe it was orchestrated. I don’t know,” he said.
Cuomo pressed about the op-ed. “Well what do you make of the op-ed today where somebody says ‘I’m working there right now, I’m a Trump appointee, and we’re worried, we have to protect you from him’?”
“Well, number one, I don’t know how much of it to believe,” said Giuliani. “Is it aTrump appointee? Is he in the White House? Is he phoning it up? How much is the “Times” complicit? I meant the Times is not exactly–”
Cuomo interjected to clarify. “The New York Times is complicit? You think they’d risk their reputation on a kill shot like this if it was proven to be false?”
As Cuomo asked, Giulani began to mock laugh and sarcastically say “no, I don’t think so.”
Calling it a “heavy charge”, Cuomo emphasized the risk to the Times if the editorial were simply fake.
“For them to be lying about this, for them to put out an anonymous op-ed that doesn’t– nobody exists behind it, you realize what a miscarriage of journalism that would be.”
“Yes,” said Giuliani. “So you’re asking me do I trust The New York Times? Do I know what they did here? I don’t. But do I trust The New York Times? I’m sorry, Chris. I know this shocks you. I do not trust The New York Times.”
“You believe this anonymous person either doesn’t exist or isn’t telling the truth,” prompted Cuomo.
“I didn’t say that. I said I don’t know,” said Giuliani, before correcting himself to add, “oh, I don’t think he’s telling the truth. But he may be a guy inside the White House. He may be upper level, lower level, maybe he’s in the old executive office building… a whole bunch of other things.”
“But I don’t trust anything I read anymore,” he continued. “Not after the stuff that’s been done to me, the latest one being the great, wonderful, totally honorable Bob Woodward, who will quote a scurrilous thing about a public figure and not ask for their version of it.”
The two then went back and forth for some time about whether it is reasonable or responsible for the president to suggest the paper should hand over their source, with Giuliani floating the idea that the source may be in a sensitive position and therefore a national security risk.
“How much leaking is he doing? This is a nice relationship with the New York Times that he’s got,” said Giulani. “If the guy would do this, to protect the country in his estimation, who gives him the right to decide that, he could easily leak national security information. I mean easily.”
Cuomo said the leaker didn’t give any security information in the very op-ed under discussion.
“Well he didn’t need to right now,” replied Giuliani. “Who knows what his relationship is with the Times. I don’t think the Times would print this if they did’t have a relationship with this guy.”
As an interesting side-note, although Cuomo corrected Giuliani several times to be ambiguous about the possible gender of the anonymous official, Giuliani insisted on saying “he” and “him” throughout, even referring to him as “this guy” at one point.
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